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Forum:June Egbert
As you may know, infamous e-boy Andrew Hussie recently hid a bunch of signed in a cave for fans to find. Upon retrieval of the first toblerone, a fan asked for the headcanon of John being a trans girl named June to be canonized, which Hussie said would be done. Uh oh, it's the epilogues and Roxy & Calliope all over again. We seem to be having some edit wars so I'm going to lock the page for a bit until we decide on a consensus here. Personally I think the best option is to leave the bit about June in the trivia, as well as using they/them pronouns throughout the page. Feel free to springboard other ideas here though. I think this is a good idea! However, I think that taking away the "June" in parentheses will confuse some new readers who don't know about June yet and upset some certain people. Overall, I agree with you in saying this is the best course of action. The less drama, the better! MrVrisk (talk) 01:01, October 16, 2019 (UTC) i'm cool with egbert's article using they/them due to the nature of june egbert's confirmation being what it was. additionally i agree that the bit about june should be kept in the trivia, though considering the past few days part of me fears that some action may be needed to prevent that bit from either being erased or edited to include transphobic nonsense (view trivia in link, i've not seen that argument used outside that edit)SoullessGamer01 (talk) 02:58, October 16, 2019 (UTC) I viewed the trivia you were talking about SoullessGamer01, and I see why you believe its transphobic, but I, as a trans person myself, think it was out of a genuine concern. Hussie has never been the most liberal person (with his terrible nazi jokes back in the past...I can never forget that). The person used words such as "disturbing" and "fad" which to me means that they don't like genderbends. (Not to say that June is a genderbend, now that sentiment would be transphobic) Still, it was a bit rude of them to exagerate their claim. I'm glad it was removed and the genuine peice of trivia was put. To MrVrisk, I think you have a point. If I was a new reader reading homestuck and saw "June" in parantheses, I would scour the comic for answers and to have them unfortunately unanswered. I hope this isn't rude, I want to have a mature dicusssion about this. VVinter8lues (talk) 14:53, October 16, 2019 (UTC) June has been explicitly stated by word of god to be canon multiple times, and Pesterquest has begun including references to it. 100% in favor of it being included on the wiki. Spoilers argument is dumb, the wiki never hides spoilers from new readers: characters' dead/alive statuses are included right in their infoboxes and the plot summaries go right up to the end of the comic. Ottobot (talk) 16:48, October 16, 2019 (UTC) I guess being vague about my private identity doesn't work on forums, so I'm going to be very upfront. I am a trans woman. I wanted representation IN the comic, not in the form of post-canon spinoffs. It would have been far more uplifting to see June as part of Homestuck when it was still running. Also, Please show me the references to June Egbert in Pesterquest, I genuinely want to see them and I have not seen anyone mention or discuss them yet. Please also remember that Pesterquest, Friendsim, Etc are Alternate Universes and therefore not true canon. Also, June is was created outside of canon and therefore cannot be considered a "spoiler" when she has no backstory or character other than being a girl. I want to support June with all my heart, I just wish this was part of the comics actual arc in Homestuck. VVinter8lues (talk) 17:53, October 16, 2019 (UTC) jade's good ending in pesterquest has rose painting egbert's nails but yeah, i wish that june was actually in homestuck proper, hopefully she'll be in whatever comes after the epiloguesSoullessGamer01 (talk) 21:12, October 16, 2019 (UTC) Hey. I'm a trans woman and I'm certainly not shy with respect to the use of ambiguous pronouns in articles; I was a big advocate for doing so in the case of Roxy last month. However, I'm unsure that we should be changing content of the John article, considering that June Egbert is essentially just author-endorsed fanon, and has not actually appeared explicitly in any released content. Hussie has jokingly declared things canon in the past, but I feel like we should operate under a policy of recording only what actually appears in published content as given fact. I'm considering creating a page to document the whole Hussie toblerone hunt phenomenon. Perhaps we could contain more detailed discussion of the June issue there? BlackholeWI (talk) 19:01, October 17, 2019 (UTC) I don't drop by this wiki much but I should say, why is this even a question??? Just leave John's pronouns as is unless official actual media related to this whole thing beyond just a single Twitter post comes out. I also really think Roxy's pronouns should be left as canon to Homestuck if you guys are going to do the separate epilogues page thing but why is this of all things something to debate over, I don't get it. Do you really think retconning a page's pronouns for maybe arguably extreme technical expanded-universe accuracy, especially if the character in question is the comic's protagonist, is worth confusing the many people who stumble upon this wiki and creating loads of hard-to-parse sentences (because Wikia/Fandom is practically the king of web search results)? I think creating a page on the Tolblerone phenomenon is a decent idea though. Cookiefonster (talk) 02:46, October 19, 2019 (UTC) how exactly are the sentences "hard-to-parse"? and given the heading being "John (June) Egbert" it should be fairly easy to piece together that the character's not cisgender(someone who identifies with the gender they were assigned at birth), especially if they look at the trivia/control-f search for june SoullessGamer01 (talk) 07:48, October 20, 2019 (UTC) I rather dislike how the pronouns have been changed- see, it is "author endorsed", but really, the page has "they" and "she" AND "he" used at various points. I have no issues with June as a headcanon, but this large change feels very forced. As for the whole "nail painting" scene- Karkat paints his nails too? That means absolutely nothing, honestly. I know cis guys who wear makeup and do their nails, plus a few who crossdress for the heck of it. Not to mention John's "dubiously canon" tag for the epilogues was removed- please put that back! Everyone else still has it. In short, I say leave June as a trivia feature, leave his pronouns alone, and wait for true confirmation before changing full wiki pages. 11:52, October 23, 2019 (PST) i didn't even realize that the epilogue banner was gone until you said something, that should probably be put back, though it might have been removed for lack of epilogue content on the page SoullessGamer01 (talk) 18:04, October 24, 2019 (UTC) I'm also a transwoman and I think changing over John's entire page to reflect a toblorone wish is a little extreme. Once June actually shows up in post-canon content, sure (though frankly even that I think should have its own page, as should Roxy and Calliope), but for now it just kind of feels like jumping the gun in a big way. John in Homestuck proper identified as a man, and then the canon-complient version of John died in the epilogues. Candy!John might have spoken to Roxy about gender or something later on in HS^2 and started to identify differently, or maybe we'll get June in an entirely different timeline like Pesterquest. Until we know what the context is, we don't know if June is a big enough deal to be changing John's entire wiki article over. Lol-londe (talk) 06:45, November 25, 2019 (UTC)